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now if your talking 429scj vs. 428 scj i would give the nod to the 429scj. The 428's and 429's most associated with Cougars are Cobra Jets. . Still, a '71 'Jet had a 0-60 time of 6.5 seconds and a quarter-mile time of 14.1 seconds, so it was no snail. This summary comparison of major 428 engine components was prepared by Bill Barr, Principal Engineer for the 428 Cobra Jet engine development program at Ford Motor Company. Mustang 428 Cobra Jet Service Parts Oil Level Indicator (Dip Stick) Oil Pan and Windage Tray Oil Pump Pistons Power Steering Fluid Cooler Power Steering Pump Radiator Radiator Cooling Fan Radiator Cooling Fan Shroud Radiator Fan Clutch Rear U-Joint Flange Reverse Lockout Rod (1970) Shock Tower Reinforcements Speedometer Gear Adapter FE guys: Difference between 427 and 428 Cobra Jet? They were the be-all and end-all of rods back in the sixties, but metallurgy has far surpassed them today. When the Ford execs at their plant in Dearborn, Michigan saw Tascas KR-8 428 engine in person they were impressed. Ford Cobra Jet 429-428-427 - CarMemories.com Each engine was from a different Ford engine family, with the 428 and 429 both being big blocks. Building Ford's Fabulous 429 Super Cobra Jet - OnAllCylinders Super Cobra Jet oil cooler adapter However, buyers would have to order the GT package if they wanted to get their hands on one in 1968available in either a coupe or fastback body style. In the quarter-mile, a one-second difference is a lot of car lengths. Some original SCJ blocks were stamped "super" on the front; if present, this marking was likely there to tell the original engine assemblers to use SCJ internals when building the engine (here's an example of such a stamping courtesy of Randy Pollock). All Rights Reserved. Note that the reinforcement bracket used with the Super Cobra Jet horn arrangement appears to have been used only during the 1969 model year. : For registered members this ad will NOT show. Chevrolet wasn't Ford's only problem in the performance department. With the elimination of the 428 Ford Cobra Jets after 1970, this left only the measly, low compression 351 Cobra Jet as the only one remaining for 1972-74. Slightly smaller in bore but longer in stroke, the 428 ran smoothly in street trim, but it was still a very powerful engine, with mountains of torque. Ford really got it right with the 1968 428 Cobra Jet (CJ). Enthusiasts immediately latched onto the 428 and 429 Cobra and Super Cobra Jets, pushing them to their limits at local drag strips on the main drag. Compression ratios were lowered considerably, and with this, performance often went out the window. The CJ had the good heads, cam but had the iron intake. The difference was forged pistons, solid lifter cam and four bolt mains. Its outstanding showing, including a first place finish, and immediate fan reaction prompted Ford to put the engine in production Mustangs. When this 428ci engine was installed in the Mustang, Shelby called the car the GT500. Right to the end in 1970, the 335hp rating stuck. stronger. Also does the cj have a lot of low end. However, Ford ran into a problem. Nineteen-seventy was the last year for the venerable FE-series big-block engine in the Mustang and Cougar. The Police Interceptor contained an aluminum intake, high performance camshaft and beefier connecting rods to produce 360 hp. Two-bolt main block Between 345-360 horsepower 428 Super Cobra Jet Internal structure differences included Lemans type cap screw rods But of course, it was too late to change the name. In third place is the 1969 Ford Mustang Mach 1. It was only installed in mid-size (1970-71) and pony cars (1971 only). Instead, "Tasca Ford"the second-largest Ford dealership in the world in the 1960sinspired the 428CJ revolution. Ford quickly caught the vision, and before the drag-ready Mustang returned to Tasca Ford, Ford Engineers removed it from the vehicle so they could reverse engineer it for mass production. In four years of its existence, the Cobra Jet name became synonymous with high-performance. The differences for the SCJ were: 1) The beefer 427 "LeMans" connecting rods. From 2008-2012, Ford used a supercharged version of their 5.4 L Modular V8. This became a private war between the automakers. ** I've also read reports of 428 CJ balancers with engineering numbers C8AE-AA and C8AE-AB, but I haven't personally seen one of these balancers -- have you? document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Great article, but the 68 Cougar wasnt offered as a convertible! Yikes, that's huge! The 428 is a 1969 block no heads. Wow, look at me actually providing an answer instead of asking questions all the time! But it was the Camaro-Firebird that joined the Mustang in the ponycar class. Starting in 1966, you could also get a 428 Police Interceptor (only sold to police entities). In 1963, the 427 saw service in a series of lightweight Galaxies, which had seen some racing success despite their weight. See if you can determine if these motors you are looking at are CJ's. Actually, rebuilding a 428 using modern methods costs significantly MORE than $2,500. A true Cobra Jet block will have a C cast in the back the block where the bell housing bolts up. Just as long as they dont add gimmicky speakers with faux-engine noise, like some of their competitors. According to the excellent Boss and Cobra Jet Mustangs by Dr. John Craft, this is how the Cobra Jet was born. Ford released a few high performance variants of the 429, including the Boss 429 and the Cobra Jets. The rest of the info is the same. chuck, The same naming convention was applied to the 429 engine as well. Visual differances between 428CJ and regular 428? In second place is the 1968 Ford Mustang 428 Cobra Jet. It was rated at 375HP (grossly underrated). His cars had been very successful, and word on the street was Tasca's cars were working very well. The cast iron intake manifold was a high-rise style, which was exceedling heavy at 90 lbs. Royce: thanx for the clarification. * These are service part numbers, not engineering numbers. As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. Common to both were vital details such as camshafts, intake manifolds, valve and port sizes, and compression ratios. While the print ad boasted leading the way, the Cyclone CJ ended up closer to the middle of the pack in 1969, coming in 12th overall in factory supercar quarter-mile times published that year. It also had improved exhaust manifolds and a 735 CFM carb (a slightly modified 780 with different booster venruris). - i dont know much about 428's but im looking into buying a boat that has a 428 in it. Super Cobra Jet harmonic balancer counter weight, 2 The 429 heads were incredibly free flowing, and in reality some of the best Ford big block heads ever created. It didnt come close to comparing with the 351 Boss, and was below even the standard 351 in performance. YES! Restyled in 1970, the Mustang returned to single headlights that moved inside of the grille. Also, the stroke on a 428 should be 3.98. The chambers were open head, which helped with emissions, and Ford fitted the Autolite/Ford 4300-D 750 cfm 4bbl carburetor to it. The 385-series 429 and 460 are also good street-strip engines, with their canted valves and large bearings. All of this was a step in the right direction, but the '67 GT500 was still slower than the rip-snortin' 375hp 396 Camaro. More than 18,000 were installed in 1968-1970 Mustangs alone. document.getElementById( "ak_js_3" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); Get Your Top 50 Fastest Muscle Cars ChartFREE! It came in T-birds and full size Fords in the late 60's and early 70's. Ford initially created 50 base Mustangs (20 of which were factory lightweights) equipped with a 428CJ dressed in Wimbleton White, then delivered them to select Ford dealers nationwide to help spread the word on its new venomous creation. I've heard this could be a Cobra Jet but I've also heard this might not be the case. The '69-'70 Mustangs were nearly identical cars featuring minor cosmetic changes. Reportedly, they didnt even let Tasca leave with the car. After that nothing but C blocks were made. The Cobra Jets had three bolt caps instead of four like the Boss, and also did not have the screw-in freeze plugs like the Boss. The Ford Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jet were introduced in 1970, and they were improvements over the 428s. Because of this, '69 Mustang GTs are collectors' favorites. The 351 Ford Cobra jet also had four-bolt mains, hydraulic valve lifters, high lift/duration cams, and larger valves than the standard 351. the 428 CJ. The big reason a 428CJ makes more horsepower and torque than a PI is the superior heads. Is a "Q-code" a Cobra Jet and an "R-code" a Super Cobra Jet? | Mustang I spoke to Rob Celedon the other day and his SCJ car has the same stamp on the block. A different crankshaft and forged-aluminum pistons were also included. Typically 360 horsepower. Super Cobra Jet harmonic balancer counter weight, 1 The engine engineering personnel who worked for me on the 428 program were Paul Lampela, Frank Gondoly, Bob Snider, and Matt Hecht. Midway through the 1967 model year, the 427 was swapped out for a newer 428 Cobra Jet engine equipped with a Holley four-barrel carburetor. But, for many, it was far too inconspicuous for them to realize it before seeing its taillights. The package included special capscrew-type connecting rods borrowed from the Ford GT Mark IV 427 Le Mans engine. Be sure to subscribe if you like content like this! 427 cobra jet vs a 69 boss 429 | Ford Mustang Forum To verify an original car, you can simply look at the vehicle identification number (VIN) on the dashboard. The 429 SCJ was a stronger version on the CJ. Whereas Shelby had scrapped plans to redesign the 428s intake manifold a notorious choke point Tasca came up with a different idea. Now lets take a look at the various Ford Cobra Jet engines. Not too common, maybe a total production of 15,000. In the 60s-70s, Ford put the Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jet engines in Mustangs, Thunderbirds, and of course, Cobras. Ford 7-Liter Engines Deciphered: 427, 428, 429 | Themustangsource This was not enough to beat the big-block Camaro, however, which ran the quarter a full second quicker. Good luck. 3) An oil cooler Cobra Jet Crankshaft (engineering number detail) The new Mustang was beautiful, and it had a large enough engine bay to take the big mill. For this family of motors, the SCJ actually got four-bolt mains and then there was that same 5 horsepower difference. The Ford 428 Big Block V8 Birthed The Cobra Jet And - DrivingLine Cobra Jet | Hot Rod Forum Very rare and very expensive as only about 1,200 were made. The following year, the Super Cobra Jet became an option. Identified by the letter W in the fifth spot of the VIN, this early 1968 edition was the only 427 with hydraulic lifters, an iron intake manifold, a single point distributor, a smog pump (Ford's Thermactor system), an automatic transmission (the four-speed was not available with the 427), and optional air conditioning. This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged. However, there were a few key internal differences between the two engines. the 429 Thunderjet was an amazing engine,in 1981 when I was 16 I bought a 69 4 door Thunderbird for $500and OMG, that was the most powerful engine ever,it would burn the tires until it shifted into third gear. The longer stroke (3.98 vs. 3.78 for the 427) gave the engine powerful low-end punch. The engine was widely praised for its performance and design, and it was by far the most powerful Ford production motor available. For the '70 Torino and Cyclone and the '71 Mustang and Cougar, the passing of the 428 meant a switchover to the new 385-series Ford big-block. A police interceptor may have an "A". http://www.clubcobra.com/forums/fe-talk/10782-another-dumb-question-428cj-vs-428scj-whats-difference.html, https://www.hemmings.com/magazine/hmn/2009/04/Ford-429CJ-and-429SCJ-V-8/1796187.html. 1973-1974 351 Cobra Jets had smaller valves, which resulted in a drop in horsepower on some models to 245. Super Cobra Jet Connecting Rod The 429 Ford Cobra Jet pumped out 370 horsepower, while the Super Cobra Jets pushed out 375 horsepower. In 1958, Ford introduced their first line of big block motors, known as the Ford FE engines. These cars ran the quarter-mile in the mid-11-second range, quick by any standard. I've seen written reference to a C9AE-C rod also being used, but I've never been able to confirm an installation. I have a 69 428 SCj hardtop, and the word SUPER is stamped (not cast) onto the flat surface behind the head on the right of the engine. If I can, I will try to get a picture of the "SUPER" stamp to show. It was available in the new Camaro in 325-, 350-, and 375hp forms (a 425hp version had been available in the Corvette for '65). Ford gave the electric Cobra Jet its name because it produces 1,400 horsepower and 1,100 lb-ft of torque. The Boss and Cobra Jets had the same block with four bolt mains, short skirts, and thin wall castings. Difference between a 390fe and 428fe? - Club Cobra Four decades after its initial release, and 34 years after it was discontinued, Ford brought back the Cobra Jet badge in 2008. The C blocks were later. Enter Bob Tasca, a Ford dealer who had a history of experimenting with Ford big-blocks for his dealership-sponsored race cars. In addition, the Spoiler II was available in either a red or blue paint schemehonoring legendary NASCAR drivers Cale Yarborough and Dan Gurney, respectively. The 351 Cobra Jet is also known as the Q-Code 351, due to its RPO. The Mercury division of Ford put the 428 Cobra Jet in their Comets and Cyclones, and Shelby used one for his new GT500KR (King of the Road). A common misconception seems to be that SCJs were originally equipped with forged pistons and CJs were originally equipped with cast pistons. The table below summarizes the part differences between the two engines. The stage was set, and war was waged in earnest. But, from the factory it was never as powerful as the (solid lifter) 427. In seventh place is the 1969 Ford Fairlane Cobra. Of course there's the Boss 429, but thats a horse of completely different color. I'm not sure about how well a 429/460 fits in '67-70's though. In April 1968, Ford released its own version of the 428 engine and called it the Cobra Jet.. But times were changing, and sales were soft for performance cars across the board, and not just at Ford. It appears that Ford went through at least three piston designs during the 428 CJ and SCJ production run to address durability problems. Shelby realized that this was a real alternative to the expensive and temperamental 427. Everyone at Ford was confounded, and the brass didn't want to go back to the 427 because of the high cost of its heavy-duty internal components. The most iconic are probably the Ford Cobra Jet Mustangs, which won numerous drag racing championships. Mustang buyers who selected either of the optional 3.91:1 or 4.30:1 rear end gear ratios got more than just an optional axle ratio! Regarding the 428, it also matters if the block is a true CJ block or a police interceptor block. I have a set of stamps capable of stamping SCJ or Holman Moody or anything else you like into a block. Register now for free! Ford had produced a 428ci version of the FE engine for fleet use in police cars and also for some of the fullsize luxury cars. 428 Vs 429 - Mercury Cougar Owners Ford couldnt let the legacy of the Cobra Jet die with the 351, but it took quite some time to revive. 427 vs. 428 vs. 429 | Ford Muscle Cars Tech Forum All FE dampers are neutrally balanced, so all can be interchanged between motors if you understand the pulley requirements. 390 Vs 428 block | Vintage Mustang Forums It was built only in 1970-71. The facts became clear once 428 CJ Mustangs and Fairlanes started running high 13s at the strip with zero preparation. Although many early Mustang articles suggest that the 428 Cobra Jet was designed by Mr. Tasca, there are in fact more than 30 design differences between the components used by Mr. Tasca, the 428 PI, and the released 428 CJ. The 351 Cobra Jet was the final Cobra Jet engine that Ford released, and it lasted from 1971-1974. The big difference was the price (at $622, the 427 cost $188 more than the $434 428 CJ), transmission availability (the 427 was only teamed with the C6 automatic), carburetors (the 427's single. Past Cats: '69 Std. The 1968 Mustang received several styling updates, including side scoops, steering wheel, side marker lights, and gas cap. Ford introduced the Mach 1 Mustang in 1969, creating an instant smash hit that outsold the previously popular GT by 67,062 units shuttering the GT model at the end of the model year. 428 cobra jet vs. 460. i was wondering if a 428 cj or a 460 would be a better engine for a street rod. The 1975 MPC also excludes 1970 from the list of application years for the C9ZZ-13826-A bracket -its only listed for the 1969 Mustang equipped with a 428-4V or Boss 302 engine, but it was also positively used on the 1969 Boss 429 as well! With a few minor modifications, however, the 428 would really scream, and by the time the '68s came around, Ford was ready to rock and roll. 428CJ /SCJ cars used shock tower reinforcements, thicker front sway bars, and beefier springs and shocks. However, the Ford production database describes the car as having an S-code 3.50:1 traction-lok rear. In 1971, the 351 Ford Cobra Jet made 280 horsepower, but that dropped to 266 horsepower and then 255 horsepower. The big FE also became notorious as one of the powerplants for Carroll Shelby's outrageous big-block-powered version of the AC Cobra. Oddly, however, Ford never revised the sandbagged horsepower claims. Ford wanted to develop a new high-performance engine to help compete against other newly introduced pony cars that had stolen market share. After some break-in miles, we'd likely see 375 hp and, with headers, yes, very likely 400 ponies. Last edited: May 19, 2013 FrozenMerc, May 19, 2013 SHARE POST #3 hoop98 Member The CJ 428 engine was the top-of-the-line performance option that replaced the former performance heavy-weight 427 CID V-8 in April 1968. Cast iron exhaust manifolds. . Automotive magazines from 1968-1969 recorded eight of the fastest Mustangs, Fairlanes, Cyclones, and Cougars powered by a 428 Cobra Jet and Super Cobra Jet, ranging from 13.23 to 14.40-seconds in the quarter-mile ET with trap speeds of 99.4-106.6 MPH. 1969 and 1970 CJ vs. SCJ parts identification. Some of the other unique facts about the 428 are that it's externally balanced and due to the different piston and connecting rod combos used by the factory. The CJ block differs from the plain 428 due to the additional webs cast into the main bearing saddles. Note that it was not thought to be possible to order an SCJ engine by itself -- the only way to get your hands on an SCJ in a Mustang was to order the optional 3.91:1 or 4.30:1 rear end gear ratios. Cast iron exhaust manifolds. I have a 428 FE engine in my car from back in the day (60's). Super Cobra Jet horn jumper wire. It came in special Mustangs (and 2 Cougars) in 1969-70. The 428 uses a crank with a 3.98 inch stroke and a 390 has a 3.78 inch crank. No other numbers are CJ. 428 CU IN stuff I copied from the net: Introduced in 1966 Bore and stroke of 4.13X3.98 Cast iron crankshaft forged-steel connecting rods cast iron intake manifold 345 horsepower @ 10.5:1 compression ration Variations of the 428 existed throughout its' life span, including the 428 Police Interceptor, 428 Thunderjet and 428 Marauder. At the same time, a Ford dealer named Bob Tasca was also looking to get more power out of his 390-powered Mustangs. In addition, when equipped with a 4-speed, the rear shocks were staggered. It was very similar to the standard 351 Cleveland engine, but with a few key differences. In 1964, the 427 was shoehorned into the Fairlane, Ford's midsized entry, between the Galaxie on the big end and the Falcon on the small. The 427 quickly became one of the most popular and powerful Ford engines, pumping out 425 horsepower. The Ford engineers kept the KR-8 so they could break it down and discover what made it so powerful. non biased Shelby Cobra related site! 1969 Cobras are often mistakingly called Torino Cobras, which didnt appear until 1970. The Thunderbolt proved to be a very fast factory team drag racer--and proved again that the FE engine could be a formidable competitor. 1968 was when the Cyclone lost its affiliation with the Comet nameplate, a good move considering it was on its way out entirely by 1969. As mentioned, the 428 Ford Cobra Jets had 427-style heads, which had 2.09 intake valves and 1.66 exhaust controllers. The 428 Cobra Jet powered some of the fastest Ford Muscle Cars from 1968 to 1970, over nine Ford and Mercury models. p.s. The Q-code Cobra Jet 428 was rated at a very conservative 335hp @ 5600rpm. In response to the Camaro, in mid-1967 Carroll Shelby created the first Shelby GT500 Mustang. 22 Though some claim the 428 CJ actually made in excess of 400 hp, we observed 365.1 hp at 4,800 rpm, almost 10 percent more than advertised. They did have a few XR7-G Cougars built that came with the first factory retractable sunroof though! Massachusetts. Both were used on 428 PI, passenger car and Cobra Jet applications. At the '68 NHRA Winternationals in Pomona, California, Ford entered a number of specially warmed-up '68 Cobra Jet Mustangs. But there was one thing about the 428 CJ that left everyone puzzled. It had four bolt mains, aluminum hemi-style heads and looked like no other engine. Welcome to Club Cobra! As with most deceptions, the ruse was quickly unmasked as the NHRA factored the 428 CJ into higher classes so it couldn't bully weaker machinery. Best of all, unlike the fire breathing 427 FE (which was mostly installed in fullsize 1963-1967 models), the 428 CJ was commonly available in all the popular midsize Ford-Mercury muscle models. Reportedly, Ford plans on getting even crazier with the electric Mustang Cobra Jet, shooting eventually for one that can hit the quarter-mile in less than 7 seconds. The value is markedly different (about double). Sorry, here's the other page. All Rights Reserved. Get The Top 50 Fastest Muscle Cars chart. 1968 through 1970 428CJ blocks were beefed up between the bores and main webbing areas for anticipated higher horsepower output.